This person is insane

[Chastity]

There's an artist, Nathalia Edenmont, who kills cats, mice, doves, RABBITS, and other animals, mutilates their bodies, and then takes their photographs. She's on exhibit, among other places, at the Wetterling Gallery in Sweden. She has taken the top halves of five white mice and made them into finger puppets. She beat a cat to death with a stick. And this is called art. This is not only inhumane, but morally reprehensible.

Link to samples of the exhibit (warning! offensive content): www.wetterlinggallery.com/archive/nathalia/nathalia_main.htm
The Wetterling Gallery's Justification of her work: www.wetterlinggallery.com/newsletter/newsletter.htm

*****Link to the petition against her:
www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/853089392


Please repost and sign the petition!


to repost the HTML hit reply and copy what you see. Thank you

[fUx0r]

well, what the explination says is true. in fact, artists have been drawing dead animals way before the 1700's. leonardo da vince made a series of cartoons (drawing on paper) in his journals that depicted dead humans. one of these cartoons was of a women with baby in utero.

back to the art, i think aesthetics is something that's subjective. as individuals, we all interpret visual iconography differently. i don't believe she killed the animals with a bat, but rather in a humane way like the explination says. i don't think this is any different from killing a cow or mink for its skin or pelt for fashion. i think the artist achieved her goal which was to make the viewer think and see beyond the surface.

[millencoolin2]

this perso likes metal, I guess! this looks like things of metal bands/fans...

[millencoolin2]

fUx0r said:

i don't think this is any different from killing a cow or mink for its skin or pelt for fashion

you´re right, but we need to review like we treat the animals, like objects of trade, and not like lives who need respect. Sometimes I fell more compassio for animals than humans

[Chastity]

I haven't seen the pictures myself because I can't handle graphic stuff like that. However, it is entirely different to draw a morbid picture of anything than it is to actually go out of your way and take the life of a living thing for the sole purpose of aesthetics.

[fUx0r]

millenCOOLin said:

you´re right, but we need to review like we treat the animals, like objects of trade, and not like lives who need respect. Sometimes I fell more compassio for animals than humans

well, if you're talking about eating animals, it's only natural to eat another animal (seeing as how humans are omnivorous). but i think it unsettling when people tell me that they believe an animal life is equal if not more important than a human life. i understand that animals should be treated with kindness and respect, but there are humans that are living in almost slave-like conditions in countries that aren't even third-world, like the US or the united arab emerits, and sometimes i get the feeling that these hardcore animal rights groups seem to neglect the pain and suffering of their own species. i raise this because i wonder how can we start respecting other animals when we can't even get ourselves to respect other humans?

[fUx0r]

Chastity said:

I haven't seen the pictures myself because I can't handle graphic stuff like that. However, it is entirely different to draw a morbid picture of anything than it is to actually go out of your way and take the life of a living thing for the sole purpose of aesthetics.

and you're right, chastity. i don't think i'd go out of my way to terminate any creatures life for the sake of my art, but aesthetics is subjective. the pictures aren't completly disturbing, since they look like they heads are photoshoped in. but like i said, it's subjective and dependent on the viewer.

[millencoolin2]

of course man! to eat, like native americans did is ok, ´cause this keep the enviroment equilibrium

but you need to agree with me, an animal´s life have more value (not by an economic view) than few peoples who keeps these peolple who you quoted in slave conditions... (I won´t say who are, but you live among then, open your eyes! and take care)

[Karrol]

Those pictures are really troubling. I feel even more concerned cause I'm working in an contemporain art gallery. I talked about those at my job to have opinions of gallerists and artist from here. Their answers were close to Fuxor's one. That reminds me a bit of the artworks of an canadian artist I worked on, Louis Joncas. He pictures dead chickens or pigs on table with dry blood and knives. His justifications are similar to her. Its like a regard on the reality of those animals. First I disliked this works either. I didnt even want to frame those cause that made me disgusted. Those two I worked on: www.pfoac.com/images/louis-joncas/Untitled_1sized.jpg
www.pfoac.com/images/louis-joncas/Untitled_2sized.jpg

But there is so much more we can illustrate with animals into. I think of this artist Shari Hatt who is one of my favorites. She photographes dogs as they were humans. Their facials expressions are sublime and so real.




So why kill them when they can be awesome alive just for the art sake? Those aren't better? The human race evolves. So I dont think telling they did that before 1700 can justify it. There is so much more sadic acts they did before. The customs change. We take more and more conscience of the importance life around us and little by little people raise and make actions against those "inferiors" behaviors. If everyone would start by changing themselves then the World would be better. We ever wait after others to make something. I dont think " others people did it before or there is worst we do nowadays with animals" is a good justification. What about her personal justifications? Why she likes to make those personally? Cause she might like to kill them if she does it for the art sake. Is that a way to calm her raw instincts? There is something that say that young kids who kill animals are potential human killer later. Just look at the Animals Reign. The carnivores are the animals who are agressive, anger cause they tasted blood. The herbivores are the ones calm and pacific. I think if everyone would have to kill every day his/her meat meal, the World would be granted of million of vegetarians protagonists. But we close our eyes cause its not ourselves who did the crime primary. But I say we are as guitly as the slaughterers cause we took a part of it. We encouraged those by eating their meat. People can hardly take conscience of it or the meaning of their acta cause poeple doesnt believe in anything anymore. If people would open their eyes on else than this kind of artworks maybe they would understand the meaning of life and understanding why we need to respect it and be thanksful of what we take from it everyday.

I kept thinking about those pics a while after. I thought: and if it was my cat involved in those? My cat is the sweetest in the World. He gives me love everyday, he brings me comfort. He is there for me at anytime. So kill those innocent cats only for the eyes entertainment stop you to learn what those animals could bring you alive. Yes, she can say that everywhere million of animals are killed to nourrish us. But I think the use of it is more justified than killing them only for the eyes entertainment industry. Cause eating and even protecting yourself from bad weathers are fundammental needs. The eyes ravishment can be filled by so much more other middles. There is so much more artworks that you can do involving animals that her arts is irrevelant to me but only to tell me, yes this person is insane and even worst she ignores it herself.

/lovekarro

[fUx0r]

karro, i respect your opinion, but i can't share it. that was just a series of photographs used to respresent and dare to even challenge western ideology.

we have to get over this "ohh, what if that were my puppy or kitty" mindset and realize that it is not our pet in that situation. i understand that you can empathize with the animal on a certain level, but that level does have its limits. personally, i believe we have no attatchment to anything outside of what we know and understand. now like i've said, that doesn't stop us from being empathetic on a certain level, but we really can't say that i feel the animal's loss or pain because there was no nexus between the two.

now i believe that this woman isn't against animal rights or such things. she is just trying to convey her viewpoint through her work, which is art's major atribute. we can't classify her as insane because she has a different perspective on something that is totally subjective. and it is. beauty and uglyness are all dependent on whose viewing; and you know, the world isn't just all smiling faces and flowers blooming and happy puppies. it's also death and uglyness and we can't delude ourselves about such things just because it's too sensetive a subject to talk about or because it's too difficult and hurtful thinking about mortality as if it were truly something real and as tangible as those animal's heads.

now, to the subject of vegetarianism, i don't think your classification and marginalizing of all carnivors is correct. i eat meat and am perfectly capable of feeling compassion for other creatures. but i'm sorry, eating meat is something that is natural as a human (we have fangs for a reason). and humans are the only animals that create these middletones in a world that is sometimes black and white. for animals, it's not about being angry and bloodthirsty. it's about survival and living for the day. certain animal's anatomical constructions are such that they would perish if they didn't consume meat because they cannot get the same nutritional properties from simply eating grass.

so as to conclude this long-winded rant of mine, i respect all of your opinions and want to remind you of the old saying that goes: you really can't judge a book by its cover.

[Chastity]

Alex/Xavier, by curiosity I was wondering if you have witnessed what goes on in a slaughterhouse whether it's through video or in front of your face.

I did when I was six years old and it was a horrifying experience. One would argue that I was a child at the time and that I would only understand it and not be traumatized by it had I witnessed this as an adult.

Many of us see meat as a finished product that sits on our grocery shelves and that is why it is hard to sympathize with farm animals. Once you see EXACTLY what happens, you either want to cry, or throw up or run the hell out or scream no matter what age you are. Most people react so negatively to those images because it is the closest thing to witnessing a murder--well technically it is a murder. I truly think that is one of the indications that we are not meant to eat meat.

A true carnivore would pounce on the animal and kill it with its bare teeth and claws. Most humans can't even get past witnessing the slaughtering. Some slaughterhouse workers end up being vegetarian after they quit their jobs. We can't eat meat raw--we have to cook it. If we ate it raw not only do we risk a number of diseases found in meat but also we would be chewing it for hours and hours in order to make it digestable. Ground beef is obviously the exception for the chewing factor.

[fUx0r]

yes, i've seen an animal being killed. not in person but on tape. it's not a pretty picture, but you can't say that everyone'll come out of that experience never wanting to eat meat again. it's an aesthetic thing.

i don't understand what you mean by humans not being real carnivours. there is no other classification. humans don't have adequate claws or teeth with which to kill an animal. that's why we don't just pounc on an animal. we use tools for that. and it is becuase our vestigial appendix that we cannot eat meat raw.

there are also serious throwbacks to being a vegan or vegetarian. a lot of them develop acute cases of anemia and an increased possibility for heart disease, due to the lack of vitamin b 12 that is only produced in meat. in women, most vegetarians experience a wild and eratic change in their menstural cycle. also, their intake of vitamin D and calcium are greatly reduced. why do i mention this? it's beacuse for every positive there is a negative. this is also true in the case of meat-eating. there are higher cases of food poisoning among meat-eaters and a possible increased cholesterol level.

now i am willing to contest the increased rates of cancer due to milk or meat. humans have been drinking milk and eating meat since we first came on the scene and cases of cancer have never been as rampent as they are now. a huge reason for this is due to the amount of hormones given to the animals to increase weight or production (but there are organic solutions to this problem). also, i believe that there are more hypocondriacs than ever before. i mean, c'mon: milk is natural. we are breast fed milk and it is through it that babies recieve vital nutrients and anti-bodies. as for cows, we do them a favor by milking them. so how can milk be a bad thing? also, eating meat has done some species of animals good. the buffalo of the unites states is still around because they are now rasied on ranches for their meat which helped in their preservation. also, if we didn't eat animals, there would be a huge spike in animal populations that would create a new set of habitational problems.

i think presently there are more pressing issues on the table that should superceed the eradication of meat eating such as human trafficing, global warming, poverty, government corruption, supresion of minorities, and deforrestation to just name a few. not to say that fare treatment of animals should be ignored, but vegetarianism seems to be more of a luxury. go to any third world country and see if there are as many picky eaters that refuse to meat eat just because they don't want to hurt the animal's feelings.

[Chastity]

fUx0r said:

yes, i've seen an animal being killed. not in person but on tape. it's not a pretty picture, but you can't say that everyone'll come out of that experience never wanting to eat meat again. it's an aesthetic thing.

I just wanted to ask. I always clarified that most humans will react very negatively. Of course as a kid I was horrified but for some reason I still ate meat. I didn't touch goat though (which is the animal that I witnessed) Some people are raised on farms and are used to seeing this. Others witness this kind of thing one day and still stick to meat. That was my case for a long time. I saw a goat get slaughtered and continued eating meat until I was 18.

i don't understand what you mean by humans not being real carnivours. there is no other classification. humans don't have adequate claws or teeth with which to kill an animal. that's why we don't just pounc on an animal. we use tools for that. and it is because our vestigial appendix that we cannot eat meat raw.

A real carnivore doesn't have to cook meat in order to eat it.

there are also serious throwbacks to being a vegan or vegetarian. a lot of them develop acute cases of anemia and an increased possibility for heart disease, due to the lack of vitamin b 12 that is only produced in meat. in women, most vegetarians experience a wild and eratic change in their menstural cycle. also, their intake of vitamin D and calcium are greatly reduced. why do i mention this? it's beacuse for every positive there is a negative. this is also true in the case of meat-eating. there are higher cases of food poisoning among meat-eaters and a possible increased cholesterol level.

I don't have a problem with my periods. Hahahaha. My friend is vegan and she gets her period every two months or even every three months. She's not doing it right. I, on the other hand, get them regularly (which I am happy about because I would seriously freak out if I stopped). The only health problem I seem to have is that I lack potassium (I find a lot of potassium rich foods give me some sort of allergic reaction--weird).

milk is natural. we are breast fed milk and it is through it that babies recieve vital nutrients and anti-bodies. as for cows, we do them a favor by milking them. so how can milk be a bad thing?

Actually, as adults, technically we don't need milk. Drinking another species' milk isn't natural. We all think it's natural and normal because the dairy industry did wonders on brainwashing us into thinking it is. There was this man who did a study on the foods of the world and recreated the food pyramid. It consisted of oil, nuts and grains, fruits and veggies. (I can't remember too clearly). He found out that the food pyramid that we're all so used to seeing was actually made by the board or department of agriculture. This man realized that this food pyramid was not based on any health studies and was pretty much a marketing ploy.

if we didn't eat animals, there would be a huge spike in animal populations that would create a new set of habitational problems.

With farm animals, there is no population control simply because they are being bred for the purpose of our food, clothing and cosmetics. However, there are other types of animals around the world that are being extinct for hunting purposes and for food purposes also.

i think presently there are more pressing issues on the table that should superceed the eradication of meat eating such as human trafficing, global warming, poverty, government corruption, supresion of minorities, and deforrestation to just name a few. not to say that fare treatment of animals should be ignored, but vegetarianism seems to be more of a luxury. go to any third world country and see if there are as many picky eaters that refuse to meat eat just because they don't want to hurt the animal's feelings.

You are right about the third world countries--some of us aren't fortunate enough to avoid meat. Interestingly enough, some of the issues that you did mention in the above, avoiding an animal based diet can help get rid of those problems. Check this out:

www.med.harvard.edu/chge/course/papers/sapp.pdf

It's a long paper but it's definitely worth checking out.

Sorry Alex, if I sound like an annoying PETA spokesperson. I definitely don't want to come off as one of those annoying or hostile animal rights activists.

[fUx0r]

Chastity said:

I just wanted to ask. I always clarified that most humans will react very negatively. Of course as a kid I was horrified but for some reason I still ate meat. I didn't touch goat though (which is the animal that I witnessed) Some people are raised on farms and are used to seeing this. Others witness this kind of thing one day and still stick to meat. That was my case for a long time. I saw a goat get slaughtered and continued eating meat until I was 18.

i doubt this. most humans know that their prime rib doesn't grow on a magical bush and infact an animal had to be sacraficed in order for them to eat it. and trust me, if so many humans were to be turned off by the sight of carnage, war wouldn't be a sprawling problem through out the world. it's proven that about every 20 yrs, a new war breaks out in some part of the world.

as for you period, that evidence comes from a series of case studies. your system is obvoiusly different and we can't generalize.

thirdly, we are not being brainwashed by the dairy industry. dairy products have too been around since before the printed press and thus before any form of mass media. yes the food pyramid has been modified and it has always been known that it was a product of our FDA.

about the carnivors, there is no such destinction between carnivores who prepare their food and those who don't. it's purly on a basis of those who eat meat. besides, humans are omnivores.

fourthly, there would have to be a method of animal population control. i know PETA would want to see all the animals liberated (including your beloved pets) but take mexico city as an example. there are hundreds if not thousands of cats and dogs that are roaming the streets and are a result of lax animal control. these animals carry with them seroius diseases such as rabies and parasites like tapeworms. these can be transfered to humans through their droppings.

and last, don't always believe what one medical expert tells you. this one report is coming from one source and i doubt is the end-all to other reports. and for every one view point, there are always 5 others that counterprove it. for example, explain to me how reports in the late 80's said that eating eggs would increase one's cholesterol level and yet in the mid 90's retracted that by saying there is no concrete evidence that corelated the consumption of eggs to an increase of the "bad" LDL cholesterol. global warming isn't even something scientists can be in agreeance with. i believe that it is not a natural phase of the planet but rather a result of our dependence on fossile fuels and petroleum, but there are scientists who say that this is incorrect.

i take it chastity that you also believe in recycling. well, that too is a crock. 40-60% of "recycled" materials ends up in landfills and out of all the "recylable" materials aluminum is the only one that has any recylable value. recycled paper causes more enviormental problems than it solves. the trees used to make paper come from tree farms, so we're not destroying forrests for paper usage. the chemicals used in the production of recycled paper (in order to bleach and prep the pulp) produce toxic byproducts that enter our atmosphere. also, a different fourdrinier (the machine that is used to press paper that's about 5228 ft long) has to be used for the specific production of recycled paper. the problem i see with this (and meat-eating) is that humans lack self-restraint and have a complete disreguard for rationing their consumption of ANYTHING. moderation isn't a core value that is taught to most. rather, we strive to have more and more. so i think the real problem lies within human's lack of self-restraint.

ohh, i respect your viewpoints, chastity. and don't worry: i don't think you're one of those PETA nuts . i really admire your strong convictions.

[karro]

In fact, fromt he Bible. God gave the right to eat merat to human after the noah arch hapening cause human at time had yet lost their innocence. God in the eden garden had fobitten Adam and Eve to eat meat. Just rambling.